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I think you’re right, and we did have very different approaches to making our documentaries. For me, I need to be passionate about an idea, and making a documentary is like a love affair in a way…getting to know someone, building trust, feeling a relationship blossom, unfold, and evolve. There is something so exciting, unique, and beautiful about the way the story reveals itself. And like love, sometimes it can sneak up on you and take you to places that you least expect! Before I even begin shooting, I like to meet with the people that I am going to be focusing on, get to know them a little bit and hopefully, they get a sense of who I am as well so that when I do show up with a camera and crew, I’m not some intimidating stranger that is prying into their lives.

Those first meetings sometimes feel like first dates…a little timid, at times awkward, everyone sizing each other up. Eventually, the goal is to establish a relationship built on trust, and for everyone to get so comfortable with my presence that they forget I’m even there. With the Hawaiian community, there is this feeling that you eventually become ‘ohana, or family—that is so amazing. In making NA KAMALEI: MEN OF HULA, I felt so honored to be allowed into this small window of Robert and the guys’ lives as they prepared for the competition to celebrate their 30th anniversary. The truth is I miss them a lot and just loved hanging out with all the guys. From the grueling rehearsals to backyard gatherings with family and friends to the tense final preparations for their performances on stage, we were there to capture everything for the film, but I also ended up feeling so close to everyone in the process. I mean, I had so much fun just talking story with the guys, drinking Budweisers (Why does Bud taste better in Hawai’i? I don’t drink it anywhere else but it’s tastier there…maybe it’s the water!), and being along for the roller coaster ride that was competition. Recently I was back in Hawai’i and Robert and the halau were celebrating the 32nd birthday of their school up on the North Shore at Paumalu. I had shot them there almost two years ago now just before the competition so it was great to return (without a camera) and just hang out with them all again. Swimming in the ocean, eating, drinking beer, and talking all day…It doesn’t get any better than that! Whereas you feel that you maintain a distance as a filmmaker, and observe your subjects as ‘exotic animals’ or ‘insects’ as you say, I am much more emotionally connected than that and never forget that these are real people with real lives, and in the end, I would call ‘friends’.

KS: The main character of CAMPAIGN, Kazuhiko "Yama-san" Yamauchi was
quite angry when he saw the finished movie for the first time because I kept some scenes which he (found) embarrassing—scenes where he was being scolded by a member of the Liberal Democratic Party or arguing with his wife. I thought I needed those scenes to fully portray Yama-san as a character, and he finally understood my intention after long, painful discussions. Did that ever happen to you with your subjects? Are they totally happy about the way they are portrayed?

Yes, that did happen to me, both with this film, and with my first film, AMERICAN ALOHA: HULA BEYOND HAWAI’I. And similarly, after discussing why I thought the scenes were important to the film, they understood my intentions were not to embarrass them or to make them feel bad. In NA KAMALEI: THE MEN OF HULA, the rehearsals right before competition were intense. And Robert can be a tough teacher, even though all of his students swear that he has mellowed out over the years and used to yell, scream, and curse a lot more when he was younger. Well, in one particular rehearsal, he flew off the handle and yelled at a dancer (by name) and threatened to throw him out of the line if he messed up again. To me, the scene shows how tense things get just before the competition and was not about that one particular dancer, but Robert pushing all of the men to do their best.

Now, I do something rather unusual as a filmmaker and send every single rough cut (and there are many!) to the subjects in my films so that we can discuss any issues that may arise during the editing process. So when they see the final cut, they aren’t surprised and we have already ironed out anything they might be uncomfortable with. In this case, when the dancer saw the rough scene of him being yelled at in rehearsal, he felt really bad that he was being singled out. We discussed it, and he saw why I wanted to leave it in. Frankly, I think everyone knows what he is feeling in that scene and feels sympathetic to his character. Because the guys saw how things changed from cut to cut, and were involved in the process, I think they were ultimately happy with the way they were portrayed in the film. I had set out to make something Robert and the men could be proud of, and I think they are. I will say that when we did a surprise birthday screening for Robert of the first rough cut (which was really, really rough), he wasn’t thrilled with it. My heart almost fell out of my chest when he told me he liked the short trailer for the film better! I explained that this was just the beginning, and using the analogy of their rehearsal process leading up to the performance, that rough cuts are like rehearsals and the final film is like a performance so it takes a lot of work to finally get it right. And he totally understood that, gave good feedback all along the way, and was infinitely patient with me trying to figure everything out.

KS: I feel that most documentary filmmakers including myself are quite "evil" in a sense that we tend to become happy when we captured something our subjects are trying to hide or something they find embarrassing. What do you think? Do you share this feeling?

Evil? Yikes, Soda, I wouldn’t say we are evil! Quite the opposite. I would say that we are blessed. I don’t know that I am happy when something a person is trying to hide comes out or they reveal something that is embarrassing, but I will say that there are many times when someone has been totally honest, shared a memory, or cried from being moved by a story they are telling that makes me feel like I have the most amazing job in the world. For instance, when I heard that the guys would be going up to the volcano to make offerings to Pele, I really wanted to shoot them at such a sacred place. At first, Robert said no because he didn’t think it was something that should be filmed, and while I accepted his decision, I was really heartbroken because I knew it would be great for the film. Eventually, after having spent a lot of time shooting, and his seeing our trailer, he understood that my intentions were good and gave me the okay to follow them. It’s some of the most spectacular footage in the film. I felt so blessed to have been there, truly honored. And just as Robert and the dancers had to remove their shoes on the sacred land, so too did the crew! Barefeet on lava rock…ouch! But so worth it…

KS: I personally do not like to prepare any synopsis or shot lists before I shoot because I'd like to minimize my pre-conceived ideas on the subject matter. When shooting CAMPAIGN, I did not prepare anything before hand, and simply jumped in with my camera to shoot whatever I felt to be interesting. How do you feel about writing materials before you shoot?

Wow, we are totally the opposite on this one. You didn’t write anything before shooting, huh? I do love the philosophy you have behind that of not having any preconceived notions before shooting, but I tend to write A LOT before shooting a project. One of my favorite parts of the process is in pre-production, when you can dream and imagine what you want the film to be, before you get too bogged down with raising the funds and realizing what your budget limitations might be. Before I start writing, I do extensive research…love visiting the archives at the Bishop Museum, reading articles, collecting pictures, listening to music, etc. I come up with lists of questions that I want to ask, figure out a treatment for the film. While the finished film always ends up being different than that first initial treatment that I write, the core is the same. I think I do a lot of problem-solving and creative visualization as I write…and since I do have a Masters in Creative Writing, it certainly comes in handy in creating a written treatment during the grant-writing process.

KS: Do you think a documentary can be objective? I personally think it's impossible. I believe documentaries can be only subjective and that's totally fine. CAMPAIGN is definitely a subjective documentary. How do you consider yours?

No, no I don’t think a documentary can be totally objective, and in a way, all docs are subjective. Let’s not forget there is someone behind the lens, crafting a story in the edit room, or deciding what goes in and what comes out. I even think our senses of humor come out in our films even though they are documentaries. There are times when I get a little frustrated in all the ‘explaining’ I sometimes have to do. Since so many people are not familiar with the hula dance, Hawaiian history, or the language, it does sometimes feel like I am making a film that has to ultimately speak to two audiences, one being Hawaiian, and the other being someone who may know nothing about Hawaii at all. And a lot of the things that I think are important about the hula, or Hawaiian history, end up becoming integral parts of the story.

I don’t know if I made any sense on answering that one!

KS: Do you think a documentary should convey a strong message? I feel it's unnecessary. In CAMPAIGN, all I did was to portray the world in the way I saw, and it's up to the audience how to interpret it. I even feel happier when different viewers have totally different opinions on what they saw. How about you?

I don’t think that documentaries need to send a strong message in the sense that say, after-school specials did on TV when we were kids. But I do think that in portraying the world the way we see it in our films, a certain responsibility, or kuleana, comes along with that. I too love the fact that the film will be interpreted by the audience, and people can draw their own conclusions from it. But many of the things that I feel are important, such as battling stereotypes or misconceptions about the hula dance, are important conclusions that I hope people realize in watching my work (without banging them over the head with it or maybe without them really realizing it). I do feel a certain responsibility to educate. I mean, with my first film, I was just really annoyed that people kept asking me if I wore a grass skirt and coconut bra when I danced hula (or worse, “Where’s your hoop?”!) so I decided to make a film that showed how much deeper the hula really was than the kitschy mainstream stereotypes that have become icons in America. And with NA KAMALEI: THE MEN OF HULA, I was shocked that so many people had no idea that men even danced the hula, and wanted to make a film that put the spotlight on just the men. Because there are so many strange ideas out there about the hula and Hawaiian culture, I feel that my films can serve to educate a wide audience on what it means to be Hawaiian. I hope that message comes across…